Bob Bly Is Wrong About Blogs
I read an ezine called Early To Rise, by Michael Masterson. In this particular issue, dated May 11th, it had an article written by Bob Bly. Google says he is a copywriter. He says he’s a copywriter. I say he’s ignorant. An unlearned, uneducated, unmitigated goofball, with regard to blogging.
Bob says, in an article available on his site :
” …should marketers add blogging to their arsenal of marketing tactics? Will it help sell more products and services?
Or is it – as I suspect — an utter waste of time ? A pure vanity publication that won’t pay you back even one thin dime for your effort ? “
So according to Bob, blogs used for business purposes, to promote products, are an utter waste of time.
Somebody jump in here and stop this foolish talk. Make him quit. Stop him before he sets marketing back about 75 years. Bob might be a fine copywriter, but his sense of marketing is as poor as any human I’ve ever encountered.
Need more proof of Bob’s failure to see the big picture ? Okay, here you go :
” Now here’s my hesitancy in recommending blogs as a marketing tool: I have yet to find a single marketer who says that a business blog has gotten him a positive ROI, or return on investment.
I know plenty of online marketers who make millions of dollars a year from their Web sites and e-zines, for instance. But I’ve not seen a blog whose creator says that the time and effort spent on their blog has directly put money into their pockets. “
I’m kind of biased here, but pardon me while I say several products have been marketed thru blogs of late. Since the blog that sold them probably cost them very, very little, if they sold anything at all, they returned a profit over and above what the blog cost.
He goes on to make more simply stupid determinations, such as :
” In my observation, there are two major problems with blogging as a business-building tool.
The first is that most of the blogs I encounter are rambling, streams-of-consciousness musings about a particular topic of interest to the author, largely bereft of the kind of practical, pithy tips that e-zines, Web sites, and white papers offer. “
Uh, Bob, that doesn’t sound like a business blog, a blog about a specific product or a marketing blog of any kind, that sounds like a blog that some goober writes to have a place for his mama to read about his cat, his lack of a life and his wish for a life.
Need more proof of Bob’s lack of knowledge about blogs and how they work ?
” The second problem with blogs is one of distribution.
With an e-zine, once the reader subscribes, he gets the e-zine delivered to him electronically every week or every month — or however often you send it.
But with a blog, the reader has to go out and proactively look for it. And since your contributions to your blog may be irregular and unscheduled, he has no way of knowing when something new of interest has been added. “
Anybody here get every copy of every ezine they subscribe to ? Me neither.
Anybody else heard of RSS feeds ? Bob doesn’t seem to know that you don’t have to bookmark a site and go back and hope it’s been updated. He doesn’t know that you can be alerted, by your feed reader, to a new post on every blog you subscribe to.
Let’s finish with a bang and refute more of this nonsense and idiocy :
” The problem is that there is already too much content, and we don’t want or need more. Analysis, wisdom, insight, advice, strategies, ideas – yes. But raw information, data, or content – no. And from what I can see, blogs serve up almost none of the former, and tons of the later. “
That kinda goes against every known statistic there is about the internet and peoples surfing habits.
I personally never tire of new info on the subjects that interest me. Seems Bob’s just giving us his opinion and likes listening to himself so much that he thinks he must be right. Kinda like he thinks to himself, ” I said it, so it must be true ! ”
” Blogs are, by virtue of being a form of online diary, like diaries: rambling, incoherent, and more suited for private thoughts than public consumption. “
Rambling, incoherent, not for public consumption… does this sound like something you read. None like that in my feed reader. Maybe Bob just needs to upgrade his choices of blogs.
” If you have something of value to share, there are many better formats for doing it online than by blogging, including white papers, e-zines, and Web sites. “
Wonder if Bob knows you can alert the world to a new white paper with your headline, in your RSS feed, while pinging about 50 sites that will alert a few million people to it’s availability ? Probably not. Nice of him to make it simple for me to blow his thoughts to smither-freakin’-reens ! You guys know I excel in simple.
” Even bulletin boards are interactive, so they have value by virtue of shared opinions, dialogue, and engaging conversation which may be listened to openly and publicly. “
Again, Bob has zero knowledge of blogging, knows nothing about the comments feature and real interactivity.
” But most blogs seem to be the private idiosyncratic musings of an individual, without censure or editing of any kind. And the result is like porridge: a gloppy mess, tasteless, and not very satisfying. Until that changes, I can’t see starting and maintaining a blog of your own, unless you are bored and looking for something to do, or require an outlet for self-expression. And if the latter is the case, well … why not just buy and keep a diary instead ? “
Again, that doesn’t sound like any of the over 100 feeds I read on a regular basis. Wonder if Guy Kawasaki thinks his blog is a gloppy mess, tasteless and not very satisfying. How about Bob Parsons at GoDaddy ? Andy Wibbles, is this your blog ? Darren Rowse, are you gloppy ? Paul Short, do you feel unsatisfying ? Debbie Weil, how about you ? Brian Clark, Mr. Copyblogger, do you feel like this fits you ? Jeremy Wright, are you a gloppy mess ? Jay Jennings, who has sold a lot of product thru his blog, do you feel tasteless ? Matt Furey, who has started to blog, probably because ezines are hard to get thru anymore, are you gloppy and tasteless ? Can you sell anything thru your blog ? What about you guys over at 37Signals ? You guys ever sell anything thru a blog ? Any cases of positive ROI ? I bought Backpack as it was being marketed thru their blog and I love it ! A review is on the way. Joe Vitale, do you like your blog ? Making any sales because of it ? Feeling tasteless and gloppy because you blog ? Blair Warren, what do you think about blogging and it’s viability as a marketing vehicle ? John Jantsch and the Duct Tapers, how about a comment here ? Rich Brooks of FlyteBlog, help a brother out here. Tell us what you think ? Jim Edwards, you’re blogging, podcasting and video blogging, surely you can refute some of this mess. Mike Smock, I need your input. Paul Chaney, surely you can help us here. Seth Godin, earth to Seth, you feeling gloppy and tasteless ? David Meerman Scott, surely you can offer some better advice that what this cat has spewed. Liz Strauss, what about it ? Martin, you out there ? Anybody ? Y’all just gonna let this guy call us gloppy, tasteless and all that other jazz ?
Let me leave you with the words of Aaron Tippin :
” You’ve got to stand for something, or you’ll fall for anything. “
Comments
38 Responses to “Bob Bly Is Wrong About Blogs”
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Mike,
I agree with you 100%. This view on blogging by Bob Bly kind of reminds me of the days 12 to 15 years ago when big advertising firms told their customers that websites were a waste of time.
As I think about how outdated Bob’s view on blogging is it makes me wonder if this article could hurt his business because potential clients may perceive him as out of touch…
Robb, I don’t think there’s a question as to him being out-of-the-loop on blogs.
I’m also gonna bet it’s not a real issue when it comes to his expertise, which is copywriting.
Many people, who have ONE skill, where they excel, as in writing copy, graphics, coding, programming, etc, often make the mistake of believing that they also know all there is about Direct Marketing.
Most people who have one of those skills, don’t have ANY salesmanship skills.
I can sell knives at a gunfight, but I can’t code or program.
The ones who have all those skills are rare. I could name one or two, but I’d leave out an obvious one or two and look stoopid, so I’ll skip that mental exercise.
I used to subscribe to that ezine, “Early To Rise” as well… Yes, Bob doesn’t seem to have any clue about the value of blogs. I’ve made more money with my blogs than I have at my own website!
I read an article in Forbes today about why big companies haven’t adopted the idea of blogging - it’s because they supposedly don’t have proof of a ROI. I wonder if they’ve even spent the time to even find proof. I don’t think they have. Oh well, their loss! More money for us
Hi Maria, Thanks for taking time to comment and for coming by.
There’s more than enough proof about blogs and their effectiveness. BUT there’s several things stopping corporate America from using blogs to their full advantage :
1) Control - They can’t find an employee that they trust to be their voice. They can’t have the CEO do it, because most of them are so far out of touch that they can’t email, much less write an effective communication on their own. Maybe if they just had to pick a few buzz words and cliches and have an assistant fill in the rest they could do it.
An exception - Michael Hyatt.
2) They’re scared to go first. Most of the yes men that get promoted to executives are used to analyzing, in their own poor ways, the campaigns of their competitors and then slightly altering them for their campaigns.
No Purple Cows there.
3) The ad people that they pay are scared to death that they will figure out that they’ve been using the company’s money to try to win awards, not get leads, customers or sales, so they are telling them to stay away from blogs.
Need proof that ad companies are stoopid and that some company’s are stoopider - read a Ketel One ad.
I could go on and on, but I’d rather say that I’ve checked out your blogs and will be linking to and reading several.
Check out the rest of our blogs at http://www.hightide-web.com/blogpublishing.
In my experience, there are two types of blogs “used for business purposes” and the difference is striking:
Type One is a “MarCom” blog written by someone with the exclusive goal of promoting a product. These blogs will always fail because nobody wants to read marketing speak in blogs.
Type Two is a thought leadership type blog that talks about issues and ideas within an industry or market. These types of blogs often succeed because the blog shows the marketplace that the blogger and the blogger’s company are smart, thoughtful people who understand the issues and would be a good organization do business with.
Bob is right about the “MarCom blog” — save the effort and build a website instead. But Mike is spot on that a well written blog brands an organization as an innovator and the effort most certainly adds to new customers and revenue.
Thanks for those bits of thought, David. We appreciate your stopping by and for taking time to offer us some advice.
I’m not in total agreement with you about blogs used to promote a product, as I’ve seen several work very well.
Marketing Speak on a blog or a website is no different, just a different delivery vehicle, in my opinion.
When people are interested in a product, they’ll read everything they can find, marketing speak or not.
That’s why ( long copy ) sales letter websites still sell, in spite of what anybody in the ad industry says, as they go about spending some company’s ad dollars trying to win awards, rather than sales.
I’ve also seen some flops…blogs AND websites. Mostly due to someone in charge who was completely off-track with the direction of the marketing.
I’m sure there are plenty of poorly done blogs that pollute the blogosphere, but there are ones that will return fantastic revenues.
I believe a product blog can excel over websites due to the interactivity, with comments from satisfied users and with the ability to answer questions in short order, before the main stream media has time write a review with incomplete info.
That said, I appreciate your time and for commenting here.
Your blog, the knowledge you share and the freely available resources have been invaluable to me. Especially ” Cashing In With Content ” and ” The New Rules of PR: “.
Heh, Bly’s a damn good copywriter but sometimes he gets it wrong. No different than the rest of us - I think part of the problem with his perception in this case is that he’s simply looked in the wrong places. I can’t believe he’d think that blogs don’t sell product if he had paid attention to Vitale or Edwards, for example.
Or my personal favourite, the Prince of Print, the one and only, Sir Gary of Halbert over on the Gary Halbert Letter.
Uh, yes, I’m an unashamed Gary fan-boy, why do you ask?
Gary’s site looke like a protoblog, don’t it? It’s just updated a little less frequently than most, but it still fits. And I’m willing to bet quite large sums of money that Gary would kick the project to the curb the second it wasn’t working for him…
An unfortunate misconception on about the level of an orthodontist trying to interpret tectonic tremors.
AdLib - As I saw Liz call you, I think you’re right. We all have something we’re wrong about. Being a Halbert fan myself, I met him at a seminar in Florida, saw him speak in person, I believe even The Prince of Print will be wrong someday. Maybe. Could happen. Couldn’t it ?
Chad - That’s about what I was thinking. Exactly. More or less.
Business Blogs: An Utter Waste of Time?
If you’ve been reading this business blog for a while, you know my answer is an unmitigated no! However, that is the take by well-respected copywriter Bob Bly. Mike Sigers of Simplenomics (and a regular flyte blog commenter) takes Bob
I work too hard to have caught only the tail end of this conversation. Now I have to be concise and learned. I’m offended by the lack of research and seat of the pants logic.
Analysis, wisdom, insight, advice, strategies, ideas – yes. But raw information, data, or content – no. And from what I can see, blogs serve up almost none of the former, and tons of the later.
Mr. Bly hasn’t done much looking. In fact, this sounds suspiciously as if he might have just picked up the usual talking points.
Blogs are, by virtue of being a form of online diary, like diaries: rambling, incoherent, and more suited for private thoughts than public consumption.
Using that logic, copywriting is just sales talk meant to hype a product or an idea.
But most blogs seem to be the private idiosyncratic musings of an individual, without censure or editing of any kind.
That sounds to me like a description of Mr. Bly’s comments.
Just a blogger’s uneducated opinion . . . after some 2.5 decades of publishing experience.
Yes, Mr. Bly writes well and has fine ideas. He has his chance to be outrageously wrong and out of line just like the rest of us. We all go there at one time or another.
It seems that it was his turn this time.
Whenever we get that righteous about anything we’re bound to be wrong.
Bly is the anti-blogger. He seems to have had a chip on his shoulder since day 1. His non-blog successes are well known, yet his blogging career has, so far, left something to be desired. Bly’s recent screed against the medium shows him to be out-of-touch rather than misinformed. He clearly does not have a stable of quality blogs in his reader (probably isn’t using a reader/subscribing to ANY feeds). His comments are rooted more in 2002/2003 than the current ’sphere.
Maybe he thinks he missed the “blog goldrush” so he’s bitter.
Thanks Liz, that may be the best ‘quick’ analysis I’ve ever read.
I especially like the analogy of copywriting.
And your analysis of his comment earns you the Golden Commenter Award, whatever it is.
Cortland - I love the idea of small business blogging…in fact I’ve been preaching it LOUDLY !
Did you catch any of the posts about it ?
Like : http://simplenomics.com/how-bloggers-can-make-more-money/
Mike, I have a great deal of respect for Bob Bly (and Michael Masterson of ETR) but you’re right… they don’t seem to get blogging at all (and frankly, that’s why Copyblogger exists).
OR, they think they can come in late and still do well. A lot of direct marketers were emboldened by the Web 1.0 crash… they could see us as simply running thorugh the hype phase for them.
Hey Brian - I have that same feeling, except for how they feel about blogs.
Mr. Masterson has done exceedingly well and maybe he just wants blogs to go away and hopes he can continue emailing his list forever.
Ain’t happenin’, bro.
Bob, however, has no respect for us, it seems.
The comments here and in the Trackbacks and Pings are unanimously ‘for’ my viewpoint and against his.
Only John Jantsch is with Bob. Yeah, I know, hard for me to believe a guy who runs a network with several business oriented blogs would align himself with this view, but you can read his trashing of me on his blog, which I refuse to link to.
Even sent me a personal email, which I would never divulge, with sarcastic comments about my comments.
Here’s my response -
Stand up and be counted, or lay down and be counted out. I choose to stand.
Mike,
Thank you for sharing your blogs with me…very impressive! I’ll definitely bookmark them.
Agree totally, and if i could have found the trackback link for this post, i would have used it! Instead, please read my post over at http://www.buildabetterblog.com, where i have linked to your post. His whole point is based on the biggest misconception there is for biz blogs: that they are online diaries. Baloney. That is a misperception that is causing otherwise smart professionals to get too personal and off the point on their blogs. Just stop using that definition and start using this one: they are frequently updated web postings on a specific niche to a targeted group of readers.
Hi Patsi,
Great to have you drop by. The Trackback tag is under the Related Posts, in the gray box, with a few other items. Thanks for the link.
Great definition and glad to see the comments are still unanimous in favor of my thoughts.
Great post by the way, I hope everyone reads it.
Bob Bly is Wrong About Biz Blogs: Here’s Why
Bob Bly is a well-known author, speaker and copywriter, but he doesn’t know squat about blogs. What he does know is based on a common misconception: blogs are online diaries. Well, that maybe one definition of a blog, but it’s
Strange comments by Bob I must admit. I’ve read the odd book by him and he’s usually pretty cluey on things. But not in this instance. He’s out of his league with this one.
It’s like he’s stuck in blogging cica-2003. I mean “diaries”!!! Come on Bob, that’s mainstream media talk.
He says he hasn’t seen anyone get a positive ROI from their business blogging?
Well I’ll put my hand up right now and say I’ve gotten more than positive ROI … I just don’t advertise the fact. I just go ahead and do it (hence why this comment comes to you soooo late
Example: my “investment” for 1 month of blogging is approx. $200 - the return: in a bad month: 5x, and in a good month: 15x
To me, it just seems it’s like an old-time marketing guy struggling to come to grips with today’s reality. Marketing has changed so much from even 3 years ago.
I’d read Brian’s Copyblogger anytime over Bob Bly these days.
Thanks for joining in, Martin, and I’m glad you’re busy enough to be fashionably late.
It’s still unanimous.
And I’m still looking forward to the relaunch of ePub.
Um, yeah fashionably late … yeah I’ll take that, that or the fact I’ve played more golf this week than I’ve played in all of March and April.
It’s more than a unanimous decicion … he’s hit the canvas in round one and he ain’t getting up.
Well, la-de-da, Mr. Golf, huh ?
When are you gonna write some posts about the courses, the sights, the eateries, that you visit, for my golf blog ?
I’ve got a photo-blogger from France, a young lady pro golfer and I need someone else to balance out their posts. And you are Mr. Balance, arent you ?
Seriously, how can you turn down a chance to post, with a bio/sig and a LINK back to your blog of choice ?
I didn’t think you could, so read a little, check the style and send it over !
Mike-
The only answer to Mr. Bly’s writing is that he took that undergraduate copywriting class where the grad student teacher told him a great way to get attention is to be contrarian.
He spewed his opinions to get attention (like my 9 year old having a whinning tantrum).
He cannot really believe the stuff he said about blogs. Cuz if he believes it, you are right, he is wholey un-informed.
I think he wrote this to get attention (like your post and these 24 comments on your blog alone).
I feel sorry for people who always have to take the contrary position on every topic.
I know a woman who supports George W. Bush around Democrats and hates Bush around Republicans. Always taking the controversial position for attention.
My guess is that in 3 years you will find Mr. Bly will be writing a blog …. and he will act as if he had invented the medium
Let me ask you all this - Has anyone ever met Mr. Bly up front? Has anyone ever emailed him personally and spoke with him via means of today’s ways of communication, email, phone, etc?
I respect him and his work. Bashing him for his work and his blog, makes no sense in today’s world. He’s human just like the rest of us.
Hey there Jeff from Oregon - You are now nominated to be the official ” Bring Bob Into The 21st Century Guy “.
I’m too busy to teach a neanderthal how to make fire, so you get to do it.
Good luck…I’d just as soon try to milk a bull as try to do that.
And no, he’s been tested, he’s not human, nor is he like the rest of us.
Not sure how you guys reach the conclusion that I know nothing about blogging. Launched my marketing blog in 11/04, and as you can see from the archived comments, it is extremely popular. I am not a big subscriber to RSS, though I get Adrants and a few others that way.
We didn’t REACH the conclusion Bob, you laser-focused us in on it with your statements.
Having archived comments doesn’t have anything to do with blogging popularity. Those are comments about your marketing knowledge, which we all agree is immense.
No one person who read your statements even gave you the benefit of the doubt, they all were convinced you were absolutely wrong in the statements you made about blogs.
Knowing one thing, whether it’s copywriting or marketing or widgets doesn’t make a person an expert on ALL things. Same applies to me.
BUT, blogs I know and you were and are wrong about their effectiveness for business purposes.
Face it, learn and move forward…that’s about all one can do when faced with the fact that they aren’t the supreme being and all-knowing.
It would get you a better stand in the blogosphere if you’d just write a new article explaining how you were wrong and how you now see all the uses for blogs and product promotion and business use. After all, it’s been a long time since you wrote that and you have grown in knowledge since then, I’m assuming.
Thanks for coming by and we appreciate your time.
On the contrary: I stand by everything I said, and in fact, have a book on the subject coming out next year from a major publisher. It cuts through the hyper about blogs, promoted by blogging consultants and evangelists, and focuses on the real but limited value of blogs in the marketing mix.
Bob - every fool has a book about blogs coming out next year, ( you’re two years too late ) it doesn’t mean anything anymore.
Anybody that would publish a book about blogs, written by you, after reading these comments is far more ignorant and out-of-touch than you are.
Why would you write about blogs and their marketing value after saying they have none ? I’ll tell you why - because you were lost and now you’re found - was blind but now you see… the money that is.
Blogs don’t have a LIMITED value in regards to marketing, the people knowing how to use them ( or not ) are the one’s with the limits.
That’s like saying guns have a limited value in war. Silly and unlearned.
Get out of the house Bob, it’s 2006 and you’re not ready for it. You’re so far behind it’s embarrasing. You haven’t sold to or interacted with a customer in so long that you don’t remember how it’s done, do you ?
I’m glad you’re writing about blogs and their value to the marketing machine. I’m also glad someone’s dumb enough to pay you to do so.
Like Barnum didn’t really say - ” There’s a sucker born every minute. “
Uhhhh….Mike? Have you put the name “Bob Bly” to the test at Amazon? You might want to do that. Soon.
And FWIW, there’s a lot more to being a copywriter than writing. If you don’t know everything that’s going on in marketing, advertising, and the world as a whole (including the virtual world), you won’t make a dime. And Mr. Bly has made many, many dimes.
Hi there wjm - FWIW anonymous comments aren’t as powerful as when you’re proud enough of your comment to put your name on it. I’d have expected someone from Plano, TX to be a bit bolder.
Point #2 - the title of the post said that he didn’t know squat about blogs and he doesn’t. I have no qualms with his immense marketing skills, just his assinine opinion of blogs, how they work and what they’re capable of.
Thanks for commenting and for your time. Please come back, make yourself known and continue to add to the conversation.
Mike: Yes, it has been so long since I’ve sold anything to a customer, the last time was — yesterday. In addition to my client work, I have a thriving Internet marketing business that makes money for me every day of the week.
When you criticize me without checking the facts first, you look silly.
Hi Bob - When you respond with general info, instead of facing the accusations, you look stupid, dense, ignorant and old. But then again, you probably are.
The title says it all - this is about blogging and you know nothing of it.
You have no idea how the blogging medium works and if anyone pays you to write about it, they will have wasted their money.
Stick with what you know and stay out of the blogosphere.
When you misuse it, use it poorly and without regard to the unwritten rules, you look silly.
Have a nice day.
In a recent post by Thom Singer on Monday, May 22nd, 2006 at 6:46 PM, Thom had a blabbering bit about how Mr.Bly wrote his article to attract attention. Well, to directly quote Mr. Singer “I think he wrote this to get attention (like your post and these 24 comments on your blog alone).”
…
And yet you were driven to get on to your computer and senselessly blabber about about how Mr.Bly was compelled to write for attention. And yet it seems, you took the time of day to respond. Dare i say, I think Mr.Bly has then succeeded in his task of getting your attention.
You also wrote “I feel sorry for people who always have to take the contrary position on every topic.”
In a sense, you should feel sorry for yourself don’t you think. Your position is opposite that of Mr.Bly’s, so you are just as much on the contrary position as he is.
Hmm… just a thought, but you obviously wrote that response just to get that same attention you criticized Mr.Bly for.
Well, well Mr. Rentniap,
Aren’t we a bundle of joy to read.
The fact of the matter is I didn’t senselessly blabber, I tried to warn people not to read a book about using blogs for marketing written by someone who’s not involved enough to write about it with any credibility.
Kind of like your comment… no credibility because you don’t link bavk to a blog that does anything to help educate a needy public, nor did your comment do anything but expose you as an unhappy chap from … Yonkers ? EEEEWWWW !
Read my Post again please Mr.Sigers. Now though you had quite a respectable and humorous response to my post, I actually did not mention YOU once. I specifically quoted Mr.Singer. Thom Singer.
And yes, I am quite the bundle of joy to read.
Happy Easter. and Happy Blogging
As it was on my blog, one would assume that when you start a sentence with ” … you were driven to get on to your “, that you’re referring to the blogger who wrote the post.
And you also used the word “you” several times.
In the blogosphere, when one is speaking to a commenter and not the blogger, one puts the commenters name out there and makes sure we know who they’re referring to.
If you have a beef with Thom, he linked to his blog and his email is easy to find over there.
Have a great day and may life treat you well.